Fantasia & Pocahontas
Aug. 1st, 2012 10:40 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ashkirynBecause I might as well do this now, while the movies are still fresh in my memory. No play-by-play account sort of thing, like I did last time with Snow White, because this time I didn't watch them by myself; Lys and her friend Sarah watched too. Pocahontas was Sarah's choice for a movie, and mine ended up being Fantasia. But even though I couldn't type this post and jot down notes as I watched the movies, I'm still going to be doing this blog thing. Just because I know I'll kick myself later if I don't.
Not that I hate watching Pocahontas or Fantasia, like I do Snow White or some upcoming movies. But still. I need to be SOMEWHAT productive today, even if it's just on a personal level.
So, originally, when I decided that I was going to rewatch all the Disney movies and then post my thoughts on LJ, I originally said that I was going to do them all in order. Well, I guess I'm not anymore, since I've been procrastinating on watching Pinocchio. (*headdesk* But I can't help it. That one's going to be the hardest to self-analyze for, and so I keep putting it off.)
First, we're going to start with Fantasia, since I just finished watching it half an hour ago, and it's the freshest in my mind right now. So. What's my history with Fantasia?
....I don't really have any history with it. I watched it, like, once or twice when I was little, and then never saw it again until just a while ago. Which I don't think you can blame me for---I've never been a music buff, and it's just not the kind of movie that kids really get, you know? Sure, they remember Mickey and the brooms and water of doom, and I remembered dancing hippos and alligators, and that there was a part with centaurs and pegasus ponies, and I knew the movie ended with Night on Bald Mountain....but the beginning, especially? Only vaguely remembered pieces of it.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a brilliant movie, and I greatly enjoy classical music---but only on occasion. And that's what Fantasia ultimately is for me: it's beautiful to look at, but not....really all that interesting or compelling? It's just so different from what I normally watch, that I can't really connect with it. Simply put, this isn't a movie that focuses on character or plot---it's all about the music. Which, you know, great, because that was the whole point for making it in the first place. But it's still not going to be my favorite thing ever, or something that I want to pop back in immediately to watch over again. Overall, I think my favorite piece was the one with all of the mythological creatures throwing Dionysus/Bacchus a party, and then Zeus has to go and ruin it. THANK YOU GOOD CENTAUR, FOR SAVING THE BABY UNICORN. :)
For the record, since I'm going to be using these posts for the notes on my personal essay/therapy project on Disney, and I have no idea what the 'Fantasia' section is going to be. Maybe just a hodge-podge of stuff that didn't fit elsewhere, or stories that seem like they'd fit to each musical piece? I dunno, these are just some thoughts.
Now, on to Pocahontas. Let's start this section off with a quote from us tonight, as we started watching the movie:
Sarah: I just realized what this movie is about.
Me: Genocide?
*laughter*
She never did say what she thought the movie was about. Hmm.
Anyway, I know that many, many, many people rag on this movie: about its historical inaccuracy, and especially about how it exhibits the typical American move of white-washing our history, and Disneyfication. So yes, be aware that I've heard all of it. And that's as far as I'm going to stick my foot into this particular mud puddle.
Yes, racism is a thing that unfortunately still needs to be talked about today, and yes, in our past, we European-Americans were terrible, terrible people, and essentially caused the genocide of the great majority of the Native Peoples and committed many heinous crimes against them, and to add insult to injury, it's become a Thing that we tend to ignore for the most part. Believe me, I know, because I'm one of them that kind of prefers to be ignorant. Knowing stuff, taking your head out of the sand and seeing all of the social injustices in the world----it just ends up making me angry. So, in all honesty, I've come to pick my battles. There are some topics that I choose to always be aware of---homophobia/heterosexism/heteronormativity, ableism, and feminism. And the reason for that is that those are all things that really affect me, personally, and that have an impact on my life. Racism, on the other hand, really doesn't. I'm well aware of the casual racism that everyone seems to get hit with, stereotypes and assumptions that even white people fall victim too---but for the most part, racism has just never been a big issue that affects me. And maybe that's wrong of me, to choose to focus my energies into discussing some subjects, and not speaking about other things, but tough. There are many other people out on the Internet who have talked expansively on racism, and in regards to Pocahontas in particular, and they're all probably far more knowledgeable than I could be about it. Some things are important to talk about, but for me, racism isn't one of them, and I'm not going to force myself to talk about something that I don't want to, especially when this is supposed to be about my thoughts and experiences on Pocahontas. So deal with it.
Okay? Okay.
(Also, I'm sorry. I'm getting a wee bit obsessed with putting pictures into my posts ever since I figured out how. ....*refer to above!*)
Alright, so let's be on topic! Pocahontas! Eh...this was a movie that was more popular with me and Lys as kids. Certainly far more popular than Fantasia or Snow White. And let's be real here. Love it or hate it, who doesn't know the words to "Colors of the Wind"?
It really wasn't until they churned out a sequel for it that I truly had any concrete thoughts or opinions on Pocahontas. It used to be just a movie I watched. I don't think that I'm going to go into what those thoughts were right now, partly because, looking back, I'm rather ashamed of them, but also because I plan to rewatch Pocahontas 2 as well, so....gotta leave myself something to talk about for then, right?
I don't think I've ever been overly fond of John Smith (and now Lys has ruined him forever by informing me that Mel Gibson's his VA. It's not that I think Mel does a bad job; it's just an image that breaks my brain with its weirdness). He just looks....odd to me. And his hair, oh God...I kind of hate his hair. Shallow, I know, but there it is. I just don't like looking at him. And I suppose I would like his character development, except that it feels so fucking rushed. I mean, the movie makes it seem like everything took place over three, four days at the most. Smith has spent YEARS AND YEARS of 'visiting new worlds' and 'hunting savages'---you can't convince me that he managed to turn his way of thinking around that fast, just because of Pocahontas's pretty. I think I have something of a wider suspension of disbelief than a lot of people, but this is too much. I mean, I can see Smith pulling ropes out of nowhere during his musical numbers conveniently before he falls to his death, and have them all somehow think that it's a better idea to take Smith on a sea voyage back to England to heal his bullet wound that would take months and in reality would kill him, rather than just dealing with it there (and the fact that it was really stupid of the settlers to not think to bring a doctor along with them...or did he die on the way?), and I can let things like that not break my suspension of disbelief and ruin my enjoyment of the movie. I may comment on it, but I can ignore logical fails like that. But Smith and Pocahontas's 'love' for each other? No.
See, I believe that they're fascinated with each other, and that they would be curious and want to see the other again. I can believe that they're sexually attracted to each other; it'd be all too easy to be infatuated with someone that's so otherworldly (especially if one of them can jump off cliffs like other people do stairs and talks to the wind and the trees and shit, and the other one is...shiny. (I guess?)). That much I can believe, and so therefore, I like the beginning of Smith and Pocahontas's relationship; especially especially for the rather epic way that Pocahontas calls Smith out on his arrogance, casual racism, and bullshit.
And yes, I will go on record as stating that I enjoy "Colors of the Wind". Along with "Just Around the Riverbend" and "If I Never Knew You" in particular, but I also like "Mine, Mine, Mine" and "Savages".
ANYWAY. So the beginning of the relationship, A+. But unfortunately, it goes downhill from there. *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* YOU ARE NOT IN LOVE WITH EACH OTHER, YOU ARE INFATUATED. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. AND GRANDMOTHER WILLOW, STOP ENCOURAGING THEM, DAMN IT. AND EVEN THOUGH I DON'T REALLY CARE FOR HIM, STOP PERVING ON SMITH. IT'S A LITTLE CREEPY. PLEASE AND THANK YOU.
(Plus, John Rolfe is the bigger sweetheart. Just saying.)
So, my biggest complaint is simply that I think they almost spend too much time setting everything up, and then as a result have to rush the middle and ending, where the really important development is supposed to happen. I mean, I really kind of dig the attention to the relationships that Pocahontas and Smith have with their own friends and such----but if the climax and such hinges on Smith and Pocahontas's romance, then why rush it? As a consequence, I really like the beginning far more than the end, which just feels contrived.
Another gripe that's just occured to me is the fact that Ratcliffe as a villain is really rather superfluous to the whole thing. I mean, remove his character, and nothing would change. There would still be misunderstandings between the settlers and the Indians, the settlers still probably wouldn't have believed John when he said that there's no gold, Thomas would probably have followed Smith anyway, Nakoma would still have gone to That One Dude Whose Name I Don't Know How to Spell, Dude would still have been shot, Smith still would have been blamed...literally, the ONLY thing that Ratcliffe does is shoot at the Chief, and end up shooting Smith. Which, first of all, was probably contrived as a way to get Smith away from Pocahontas and back to England, and secondly, could easily have happened somehow else. Ratcliffe, in short, is a fail villain. (And is in an epically gay romance with Wiggins, but that's beside the point.)
Actually, no, let's make that a point. It's shockingly easy to make the movie gay. I mean, Wiggins is flaming, especially for Ratcliffe, and Ratcliffe himself isn't that far behind him.
Seriously. Check him out:
I know he's singing about gold, but come on. Also, just check out his expressions sometimes:
That's what I thought. Also, he gets rather upset when Wiggins pretends to be hurt at one point. It's almost endearing.
Anyway, Thomas has a cute crush on John Smith, and Pocahontas/Nakoma is the ship that makes the most sense in the entire movie. (And let's not forget Meeko/Percy, eh?) LET'S ALL JUST HAVE A GAY OLD TIME, YEAH?
Ahem.
Now....Grandmother Willow and the colored-leaves-wind and that kind of shit used to wig me out; but then it occurred to me while watching it tonight that I could think of it as Disney's way of animating the spiritual beliefs of the Native Americans, and having talking trees and such was the only thing they could think of to convey it. So, this is what I'm choosing to believe, and it makes me happier. :D
Alright, now I suppose it's time to talk about Pocahontas herself. I think I ultimately like her. In a way, even though I genuinely do like John Rolfe in the next movie, I still wish that they hadn't made the sequel. From a feminist perspective, the way the original movie ends was a kind of a perfect way for it to go. Smith does the usual "I can't leave you and live without you back in London", but Pocahontas shoots this down, and even though the goodbyes they say to each other are really over-dramatic, that's the point: they're goodbyes. They're not going to be together seemingly ever again, and Pocahontas is going to be able to continue her life without her one true love and not have it suck, really. She chooses to be responsible, and stays to help her people, where she's needed, instead of chasing her own selfish whims.
....Wait, this is still a Disney movie, right? ....Oh, that's right, there's a sequel, so yes.
Plus, their final goodbye is rather poignant and beautiful for its simplicity---the simple waving gesture that signifies 'goodbye' for the Indians that she had taught him, symbolizing Smith's character growth through the movie (however rushed it was). Awesome.
Anyway, I like to think of Pocahontas as a spiritual figure, you know? She doesn't need a man to be happy, and really, she's still the same person at the end of the movie as she was at the beginning. Pocahontas is the static one to Smith's dynamic: in the beginning, she found her greatest joy in the wilds of nature, which is essentially the cornerstone of her people's religion, and she seems to still be set there at the end. And I think that's really a fine message to send to girls and such, even if I personally don't really relate to it; that it's perfectly valid to dedicate yourself completely to your religion, if that's what makes you happy.
(And she can have Nakoma for cuddle time, and it's all good. ;P)
So...there you have it. I think that's all that I wanted to cover about the movie, anyway. And if I think of something else, I can always go back and edit it in, so no worries.
Until next time, then! ^^
o - o - o
"But still, I cannot see...if the savage one is me." -Pocahontas
o - o - o
Not that I hate watching Pocahontas or Fantasia, like I do Snow White or some upcoming movies. But still. I need to be SOMEWHAT productive today, even if it's just on a personal level.
So, originally, when I decided that I was going to rewatch all the Disney movies and then post my thoughts on LJ, I originally said that I was going to do them all in order. Well, I guess I'm not anymore, since I've been procrastinating on watching Pinocchio. (*headdesk* But I can't help it. That one's going to be the hardest to self-analyze for, and so I keep putting it off.)
First, we're going to start with Fantasia, since I just finished watching it half an hour ago, and it's the freshest in my mind right now. So. What's my history with Fantasia?
....I don't really have any history with it. I watched it, like, once or twice when I was little, and then never saw it again until just a while ago. Which I don't think you can blame me for---I've never been a music buff, and it's just not the kind of movie that kids really get, you know? Sure, they remember Mickey and the brooms and water of doom, and I remembered dancing hippos and alligators, and that there was a part with centaurs and pegasus ponies, and I knew the movie ended with Night on Bald Mountain....but the beginning, especially? Only vaguely remembered pieces of it.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a brilliant movie, and I greatly enjoy classical music---but only on occasion. And that's what Fantasia ultimately is for me: it's beautiful to look at, but not....really all that interesting or compelling? It's just so different from what I normally watch, that I can't really connect with it. Simply put, this isn't a movie that focuses on character or plot---it's all about the music. Which, you know, great, because that was the whole point for making it in the first place. But it's still not going to be my favorite thing ever, or something that I want to pop back in immediately to watch over again. Overall, I think my favorite piece was the one with all of the mythological creatures throwing Dionysus/Bacchus a party, and then Zeus has to go and ruin it. THANK YOU GOOD CENTAUR, FOR SAVING THE BABY UNICORN. :)
For the record, since I'm going to be using these posts for the notes on my personal essay/therapy project on Disney, and I have no idea what the 'Fantasia' section is going to be. Maybe just a hodge-podge of stuff that didn't fit elsewhere, or stories that seem like they'd fit to each musical piece? I dunno, these are just some thoughts.
Now, on to Pocahontas. Let's start this section off with a quote from us tonight, as we started watching the movie:
Sarah: I just realized what this movie is about.
Me: Genocide?
*laughter*
She never did say what she thought the movie was about. Hmm.
Anyway, I know that many, many, many people rag on this movie: about its historical inaccuracy, and especially about how it exhibits the typical American move of white-washing our history, and Disneyfication. So yes, be aware that I've heard all of it. And that's as far as I'm going to stick my foot into this particular mud puddle.
Yes, racism is a thing that unfortunately still needs to be talked about today, and yes, in our past, we European-Americans were terrible, terrible people, and essentially caused the genocide of the great majority of the Native Peoples and committed many heinous crimes against them, and to add insult to injury, it's become a Thing that we tend to ignore for the most part. Believe me, I know, because I'm one of them that kind of prefers to be ignorant. Knowing stuff, taking your head out of the sand and seeing all of the social injustices in the world----it just ends up making me angry. So, in all honesty, I've come to pick my battles. There are some topics that I choose to always be aware of---homophobia/heterosexism/heteronormativity, ableism, and feminism. And the reason for that is that those are all things that really affect me, personally, and that have an impact on my life. Racism, on the other hand, really doesn't. I'm well aware of the casual racism that everyone seems to get hit with, stereotypes and assumptions that even white people fall victim too---but for the most part, racism has just never been a big issue that affects me. And maybe that's wrong of me, to choose to focus my energies into discussing some subjects, and not speaking about other things, but tough. There are many other people out on the Internet who have talked expansively on racism, and in regards to Pocahontas in particular, and they're all probably far more knowledgeable than I could be about it. Some things are important to talk about, but for me, racism isn't one of them, and I'm not going to force myself to talk about something that I don't want to, especially when this is supposed to be about my thoughts and experiences on Pocahontas. So deal with it.
Okay? Okay.
(Also, I'm sorry. I'm getting a wee bit obsessed with putting pictures into my posts ever since I figured out how. ....*refer to above!*)
Alright, so let's be on topic! Pocahontas! Eh...this was a movie that was more popular with me and Lys as kids. Certainly far more popular than Fantasia or Snow White. And let's be real here. Love it or hate it, who doesn't know the words to "Colors of the Wind"?
It really wasn't until they churned out a sequel for it that I truly had any concrete thoughts or opinions on Pocahontas. It used to be just a movie I watched. I don't think that I'm going to go into what those thoughts were right now, partly because, looking back, I'm rather ashamed of them, but also because I plan to rewatch Pocahontas 2 as well, so....gotta leave myself something to talk about for then, right?
I don't think I've ever been overly fond of John Smith (and now Lys has ruined him forever by informing me that Mel Gibson's his VA. It's not that I think Mel does a bad job; it's just an image that breaks my brain with its weirdness). He just looks....odd to me. And his hair, oh God...I kind of hate his hair. Shallow, I know, but there it is. I just don't like looking at him. And I suppose I would like his character development, except that it feels so fucking rushed. I mean, the movie makes it seem like everything took place over three, four days at the most. Smith has spent YEARS AND YEARS of 'visiting new worlds' and 'hunting savages'---you can't convince me that he managed to turn his way of thinking around that fast, just because of Pocahontas's pretty. I think I have something of a wider suspension of disbelief than a lot of people, but this is too much. I mean, I can see Smith pulling ropes out of nowhere during his musical numbers conveniently before he falls to his death, and have them all somehow think that it's a better idea to take Smith on a sea voyage back to England to heal his bullet wound that would take months and in reality would kill him, rather than just dealing with it there (and the fact that it was really stupid of the settlers to not think to bring a doctor along with them...or did he die on the way?), and I can let things like that not break my suspension of disbelief and ruin my enjoyment of the movie. I may comment on it, but I can ignore logical fails like that. But Smith and Pocahontas's 'love' for each other? No.
See, I believe that they're fascinated with each other, and that they would be curious and want to see the other again. I can believe that they're sexually attracted to each other; it'd be all too easy to be infatuated with someone that's so otherworldly (especially if one of them can jump off cliffs like other people do stairs and talks to the wind and the trees and shit, and the other one is...shiny. (I guess?)). That much I can believe, and so therefore, I like the beginning of Smith and Pocahontas's relationship; especially especially for the rather epic way that Pocahontas calls Smith out on his arrogance, casual racism, and bullshit.
And yes, I will go on record as stating that I enjoy "Colors of the Wind". Along with "Just Around the Riverbend" and "If I Never Knew You" in particular, but I also like "Mine, Mine, Mine" and "Savages".
ANYWAY. So the beginning of the relationship, A+. But unfortunately, it goes downhill from there. *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* YOU ARE NOT IN LOVE WITH EACH OTHER, YOU ARE INFATUATED. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. AND GRANDMOTHER WILLOW, STOP ENCOURAGING THEM, DAMN IT. AND EVEN THOUGH I DON'T REALLY CARE FOR HIM, STOP PERVING ON SMITH. IT'S A LITTLE CREEPY. PLEASE AND THANK YOU.
(Plus, John Rolfe is the bigger sweetheart. Just saying.)
So, my biggest complaint is simply that I think they almost spend too much time setting everything up, and then as a result have to rush the middle and ending, where the really important development is supposed to happen. I mean, I really kind of dig the attention to the relationships that Pocahontas and Smith have with their own friends and such----but if the climax and such hinges on Smith and Pocahontas's romance, then why rush it? As a consequence, I really like the beginning far more than the end, which just feels contrived.
Another gripe that's just occured to me is the fact that Ratcliffe as a villain is really rather superfluous to the whole thing. I mean, remove his character, and nothing would change. There would still be misunderstandings between the settlers and the Indians, the settlers still probably wouldn't have believed John when he said that there's no gold, Thomas would probably have followed Smith anyway, Nakoma would still have gone to That One Dude Whose Name I Don't Know How to Spell, Dude would still have been shot, Smith still would have been blamed...literally, the ONLY thing that Ratcliffe does is shoot at the Chief, and end up shooting Smith. Which, first of all, was probably contrived as a way to get Smith away from Pocahontas and back to England, and secondly, could easily have happened somehow else. Ratcliffe, in short, is a fail villain. (And is in an epically gay romance with Wiggins, but that's beside the point.)
Actually, no, let's make that a point. It's shockingly easy to make the movie gay. I mean, Wiggins is flaming, especially for Ratcliffe, and Ratcliffe himself isn't that far behind him.
Seriously. Check him out:
I know he's singing about gold, but come on. Also, just check out his expressions sometimes:
That's what I thought. Also, he gets rather upset when Wiggins pretends to be hurt at one point. It's almost endearing.
Anyway, Thomas has a cute crush on John Smith, and Pocahontas/Nakoma is the ship that makes the most sense in the entire movie. (And let's not forget Meeko/Percy, eh?) LET'S ALL JUST HAVE A GAY OLD TIME, YEAH?
Ahem.
Now....Grandmother Willow and the colored-leaves-wind and that kind of shit used to wig me out; but then it occurred to me while watching it tonight that I could think of it as Disney's way of animating the spiritual beliefs of the Native Americans, and having talking trees and such was the only thing they could think of to convey it. So, this is what I'm choosing to believe, and it makes me happier. :D
Alright, now I suppose it's time to talk about Pocahontas herself. I think I ultimately like her. In a way, even though I genuinely do like John Rolfe in the next movie, I still wish that they hadn't made the sequel. From a feminist perspective, the way the original movie ends was a kind of a perfect way for it to go. Smith does the usual "I can't leave you and live without you back in London", but Pocahontas shoots this down, and even though the goodbyes they say to each other are really over-dramatic, that's the point: they're goodbyes. They're not going to be together seemingly ever again, and Pocahontas is going to be able to continue her life without her one true love and not have it suck, really. She chooses to be responsible, and stays to help her people, where she's needed, instead of chasing her own selfish whims.
....Wait, this is still a Disney movie, right? ....Oh, that's right, there's a sequel, so yes.
Plus, their final goodbye is rather poignant and beautiful for its simplicity---the simple waving gesture that signifies 'goodbye' for the Indians that she had taught him, symbolizing Smith's character growth through the movie (however rushed it was). Awesome.
Anyway, I like to think of Pocahontas as a spiritual figure, you know? She doesn't need a man to be happy, and really, she's still the same person at the end of the movie as she was at the beginning. Pocahontas is the static one to Smith's dynamic: in the beginning, she found her greatest joy in the wilds of nature, which is essentially the cornerstone of her people's religion, and she seems to still be set there at the end. And I think that's really a fine message to send to girls and such, even if I personally don't really relate to it; that it's perfectly valid to dedicate yourself completely to your religion, if that's what makes you happy.
(And she can have Nakoma for cuddle time, and it's all good. ;P)
So...there you have it. I think that's all that I wanted to cover about the movie, anyway. And if I think of something else, I can always go back and edit it in, so no worries.
Until next time, then! ^^
o - o - o
"But still, I cannot see...if the savage one is me." -Pocahontas
o - o - o
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2012-09-27 07:54 pm (UTC)Actually, I think Chernabog (or however you spell it) is supposed to be the Devil.
Yeah, I think I said in my Fox and the Hound review, but Pocahontas was pretty popular with Lys and I as kids.
And seriously! Even if we don't get to see it, they should at least have made the internal timeline be longer. :/ And ugh, Mel Gibson...DX
Hahahaha, that's funny. And yes, I do like Ratcliffe's songs. Maybe not my favorite Disney villain songs, but still good in their own right.
OH MY GOD, DID HE REALLY???!!!!!! I love Billy Zane!!!! OMG, yes, that DOES explain a lot! XD And yes...from what I remember, the sequel wasn't quite so bad as a lot of other Disney sequels were...and infinitely better than The Fox and the Hound 2, ugh.
And yes, I will review Hercules eventually. And I definitely enjoy that movie, faults and all. It'll just take a bit of time, because apparently our VCR ate it the last time someone watched it, so we don't own the movie anymore, and I'll have to look it up online or something. DX But anyway, Meg's one of my favorite Disney heroines and all.